Curse

jigenbakuda · Nov 05, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I'm starting this thread because I want to get tips and opinions on my playstyle.

I just started my first monk this week, he is faction born and I'm not buying any tomes for him (in exception for balthazar's spirit and or unyielding aura).

I'll first go over my bar...

life bond
blessed signet
spirit light
life sheath
protective spirit
shielding hands
remove hex
flesh of my flesh

In general usage I life bond 6 people, upkeep with blessed siggy, and TRY to prot people... haven't been called a noob healer yet.. and haven't failed a mission because of me, but when the going gets rough, I tend to not have enough healing, or energy (prot spirit is expensive in my bar,but I'm thinking of adding balth spirit to my bar) to throw stuff on people who like to rambo things.

Now some questions.

Because life bond is reducing the damage to 50% is prot spirit less useful (I mainly use prot spirit for the person I'm not maintaining a life bond for)? Should I be using shielding hands exclusively on people I'm life bonding, or should I get a tome and get shield of absorption?

How do you think I can enhance this bar?

Why should I not run this bar?

How can I change my build so I can monk effectively when I'm the only monk there? (went back to zen daijun and was the only monk for 5 others... was not fun, seeing as I had only 1 heal (was using signet of devotion at that time), we made it... but only because I was telling them what to do and calling targets / groups.

So if you have any advice / criticism that is constructive I'd love to hear it.

Saph · Nov 05, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

For one, life bond on 6 people is a bit much. As you said, you rarely have energy for healing and proting. You are the monk, so healing and proting is your job. Its very very rare that you need a bonder in PvE. By having Life Bond on so many people, you make yourself unreliable when it comes to using the rest of the skills on your bar. As a monk, I always run Protective Spirit and Shield of Absorption on my bars. Protective Spirit and SoA can literally take damage being dealt down to zero, so imo, Prot Spirit and SoA is a must for any monk.

Also, looking at your bar, you are in need of a much better resurrection skill. Seeing how the monk profession has the best resses, I'm a little confused as to why you would choose to run a res that cuts your health in half.

And to touch on the Life Bond vs Prot Spirit aspect. Prot Spirit reduces all damage to 10% of the targets health, while Life Bond cuts damage in half and redirects damage back to you, the healer. With damage being reduced at a constant interval from Prot Spirit and only having to heal one source instead of two as in Life Bond, you are actually doing less healing and saving more energy.

Grumpy Bear · Nov 05, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

If you're going to run a semi-bonding bar then you should have a full heal monk with you, if you're the only monk then hybrid is the way to go. Something like:

Word of Healing
Patient Spirit
Signet of Rejuvination
Guardian
Shield or Absorbtion
Prot Spirit
Dismiss Condition
Cure Hex

Imo, monks should never carry res and should be left to the other members in the party. A res skill is a slot on your bar poorly filled that should be filled with something thats going to keep your team up.

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 05, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

bonding is usually only used in extreme situations and generally not for normal pve play. don't bond everyone like that

jigenbakuda · Nov 05, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Thanks for the responses!

If I was to use life bond on less people, who would my targets be? squishies? Rambo wars, fragile sins? Or should I get a feel for it as the mission / outing progresses. I really like bonding people, but from the sound of things... it might not help as much as I think it is. I'm trying to start "watching the field" to see who will need to be protted before they take damage, but its quite hard... I'm not sure about what the right choice is all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

bonding is usually only used in extreme situations and generally not for normal pve play. don't bond everyone like that

Are the extreme situations like in high end pve tank protection, inwhich all my maintains are on 1 character?

Saph · Nov 05, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jigenbakuda

If I was to use life bond on less people, who would my targets be? squishies? Rambo wars, fragile sins? Or should I get a feel for it as the mission / outing progresses. I really like bonding people, but from the sound of things... it might not help as much as I think it is.

If you want to keep using Life Bond, then I would use it sparingly on backline party members, since they should be taking the least amount of damage, while proting frontliners, aka melee. Getting information about a mission before doing it can be key in whether or not you are carrying the right skills for the missions. For instance, a hex removal in a condition heavy area is not helpful at all. It is always best to do some research on what enemies you will be encountering so that way you can better manage your build.

Quote:

I'm trying to start "watching the field" to see who will need to be protted before they take damage, but its quite hard... I'm not sure about what the right choice is all the time.

It may not always be obvious who to prot first, but usually the person who is most likely to engage a mob or enemy first is the person to prot. The first person to reach a mob is often the first target of the mob, meaning they can get spiked real hard real fast. So be wary and communicate with the melee members of your team.

Quote:

Are the extreme situations like in high end pve tank protection, inwhich all my maintains are on 1 character?

Yes, high end pve areas such as DoA, UW, etc; are places where bonding is more common. And even in these areas, the bonder mainly bonds one or two people, which are usually the tanks.

Sierraa · Nov 05, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Welcome to monking :] Prepare for a lifetime of being blamed and being called a noob.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Guide:Monk

This gives a quick over-view of each attribute as well as a few builds to get you started.

Quote:

I just started my first monk this week, he is faction born and I'm not buying any tomes for him (in exception for balthazar's spirit and or unyielding aura).

You can make a decent hybrid healer bar from Kaineng. Skills like Signet of Rejuvenation, Jamei's Gaze, Spirit Bond, Ethereal Light, Deny Hexes and Smite Hex. Combine them with the skills you got on Shing Jea island, Protective Spirit & Heaven's Delight. You now have a hybrid bar! Elite options in Factions is kinda meh though. You get Life Sheath in Sunjiang or Boreas Seabed, and Word of Healing in Xaquang Skyway, but both are valuable elites.

Quote:

In general usage I life bond 6 people, upkeep with blessed siggy, and TRY to prot people... haven't been called a noob healer yet.. and haven't failed a mission because of me, but when the going gets rough, I tend to not have enough healing, or energy (prot spirit is expensive in my bar,but I'm thinking of adding balth spirit to my bar) to throw stuff on people who like to rambo things.

Most generally bonders aren't used for pve. There are team builds for elite area's that do require them, but they're not really effective otherwise. If you do want to continue using your bar I'd suggest putting Life bond on squishy targets that seem to get hit a lot. :P Assassins, Casters or Frenzy Warriors.

Quote:

Because life bond is reducing the damage to 50% is prot spirit less useful (I mainly use prot spirit for the person I'm not maintaining a life bond for)? Should I be using shielding hands exclusively on people I'm life bonding, or should I get a tome and get shield of absorption?

I would drop the bonds all together and just use Prot Spirit tbh. SoA is a <3 skill but it's really up to you which you want to use. Both do about the same thing.

Quote:

How can I change my build so I can monk effectively when I'm the only monk there? (went back to zen daijun and was the only monk for 5 others... was not fun, seeing as I had only 1 heal (was using signet of devotion at that time), we made it... but only because I was telling them what to do and calling targets / groups.

In 8 man area's I'd take a heal or prot henchman with me. Soloing monking is more stressful than it needs to be. :]

Age · Nov 05, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Look at the link I posted in the sticky as it goes more depth and what secondaries goes best.

Perfected Shadow · Nov 06, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

You have to read life bond's description more carefully:
"While you maintain this Enchantment, whenever target other ally takes damage from an attack, half the damage is redirected to you. The damage you receive this way is reduced by 3...25...30. "
Elemental damage/direct damage are far more dangerous if you know what you're doing. (enfeebling blood).

Grey Hawthorne · Nov 18, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierraa

Welcome to monking :] Prepare for a lifetime of being blamed and being called a noob.

lol. that was epic.

and yeah...don't bond 6 people...your head will explodiate from all the successive damage you're going to have to try and deal with later in high end areas. FoW, UW and all those other goodies. I'd go with hunni cakes' advice, try and work a better hybrid build...of course unless if you have another monk with you focus on healing.

a main staple for bonding someone is the person who throws up SY! first. either being your imbagon or the warrior running the Godmode build. after that. focus on the ones that are on the frontlines who you notice are being wailed on the most i.e. the back up melee or a squishy.Or generally someone who's dumber than the rest of the group

Silmar Alech · Nov 18, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

In my opinion, you are taking a completely wrong approach for a monk starter.
In the beginning, simply start with pure healing. Make the red bars go up. Learn how to keep an eye on the field as well as on the bars. Study the many different healing spells, condition and hex removes. Learn what happens if you waste your energy: your party dies.

Learn what to do and how to not panic if 6 of 8 team members are about to die under 25% life. You must go to the limit of healing and fail with pure healing builds to be able to see what protection is actually for. Then you can move on and try protection. Perhaps after the first or second full campaign you played with your monk.

In normal mode, you seldomly need protection spells. Wasted energy, because you can always outheal the damage very easily, and you have to heal a bit after protection anyway.

In hard mode, it is different. Active protection is the key: give protection to the person that is currently under attack, or better, the second before he gets under attack. This person can change every second: usually it is a melee fighter at the front, but it can also be a brainless elementalist who thinks he is invincible and attacks first.
This needs a bit of experience and awareness about what is going on. Don't look at the red bars any more, watch what everyone is doing instead. And still keep the bars up. Don't protect the "tank". Protect the person who is attacking first and who is under attack, whoever he is.

My favorite monk builds are hybrid builds - strong healing with word of healing but also decent protection with protective spirit and Guardian. With these and a bit of healing you can keep everyone alive if he gets under attack, not only a tank. People not under attack get nothing from you, and you waste no energy on them like you would if you put bonds on everyone.

Taurean · Nov 19, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

How about energy management? Does that come as a third thing to learn?

Most sensible post i've read in a while, the one above. Almost inspired me to become a monk.

Silmar Alech · Nov 20, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

The demand for energy management comes automatically. At one point in long lasting fights you find that you are out of energy. If that happens too often, and not only after emergency situations, you should change something in your build or in your play style. More 5-energy spells, less 10-energy spells. A skill for gaining/saving energy. Many monks don't do anything about it and ask for a necromant with Blood Ritual instead. Or they always take a hero or hench (Eve) with Blood Ritual or even Blood is Power. Or they boost their gear with maximum energy weapons, runes and insignia, but that allows only 10 more seconds in the fight.

In normal play you aren't supposed to depend on an external energy supply as monk. Only in specialized team builds for elite areas where it is an essential part for everyone, not only for the monk.

I missed a point in my original post. In the very beginning, in the 4-man areas with level 1-8, you don't provide pure healing. You simply don't have 8 useful skills for a healing bar. You don't need to remove hexes or conditions, which last for only 2-4 seconds or are very weak anyway.

Your group needs more damage in that stage, not a full-blown healer. So you make some patchwork build in your lowest levels with a mixture of healing and smiting prayers. At some point your fellows are strong enough and you can switch to a non-fighting bar and move the attribute points from smiting prayers to divine favor. At least this is how I did it.

_Nihilist_ · Nov 20, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Don't forget weapon-swapping, Silmar. Having an emergency high-energy set (wand and focus that both have -1 energy regen/+15 energy - total of -2 regen/+30e) is usually enough for that last little bit of "oSHIT!" at the end of a particularly tough fight, and having a staff with a 20% increased enchantment wrapping for casting enchantments spells (to get the most out of every spell and point of energy you use) makes all the difference in the world.

the_jos · Nov 20, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurean

How about energy management? Does that come as a third thing to learn?

The thing a monk should learn is when to heal, when to wait with heal and when to have someone die. Overhealing is the most common cause of lack of energy in PvE, made worse by bad play by the team.
Next cause is poor choice of skills.
Smart play by both the individual monk and the team is the main part of energy management.
This will not mean the blue bar is never empty but in general energy should not be a concern except in very agressive gameplay or when the team made a mistake.

_Nihilist_ · Nov 20, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

^
Good point, jos. No matter how well a player may understand energy management (regardless of profession), when a team makes bad decisions, their support casters are going to be bled dry whether or not they have e-mgmt.

Taurean · Nov 21, 2009, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Why can't every post in this forum be as clear as the ones above ^^ Usually it's ten-twenty posts which all can't hit the nail on the head.

Thanks for the answers - not even my thread ^_^

jigenbakuda · Nov 21, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurean

Why can't every post in this forum be as clear as the ones above ^^ Usually it's ten-twenty posts which all can't hit the nail on the head.

Thanks for the answers - not even my thread ^_^

Yes I agree, this is a highly informative thread, I read the guide, but this thread fills in a lot of those gaps I had, I am also very happy to read the responses in this thread.

the_jos · Nov 23, 2009, 01:50 PM // 13:50

The best advice I can give on monking is that new monks after learning the very basics of PvE (and unlocking the basic skills) move to PvP once in a while.
Here don't focus on keeping red bars up (well, also do that) but far more on what is happening around you. Learn to protect yourself, anticipate on what will most likely happen in the next few seconds. This will help you much in detecting certain things in PvE after a while.

Next advice: Play with as much health as you can get.
In PvE his means foes won't you aggro much, they go for other -lower health- players.
It's easier to keep team mates alive when you are not under attack.
Use a shield with + health and a sword/spear/axe with + health to boost even more and bring armor up at the same time (foes will attack even less).

On hex removal I can be easy, there are only few very serious hexes around in PvE. It's easy to outheal most without much problems. Watch the area you are playing in and consider if you bring hex remover. The same goes for condition removers. If they only degen and only few players at once they don't matter much. Blind, daze and such are a problem and require removers. Still you might want to bring a hex and condition remover while you are still learning, to learn to use them best and how they drain energy.

Last: if you are playing with AI (heroes/hench) remember they are bad at predicting and good at reacting. It's not easy to outheal a WoH hero/hench. Same with removing hexes/conditions. But it's easy to place a prot spirit and other prots in time, AI is almost always too late with such.